Rethinking Wellness

Registered dietitian Aaron Flores joins us to discuss why Andrew Huberman and other biohacking wellness bros have such massive appeal, and how their rhetoric can lead to disordered eating and body shame. In a deeper dive for paid subscribers, we get into how to talk to male partners or loved ones who’ve come under the sway of bro-wellness culture—and how to set boundaries when their diet/fitness talk challenges our recovery from disordered eating. We also get vulnerable about mortality, grief, and why it’s so hard to confront aging and death head-on, and Christy shares an unexpected response to a past interview on the pod.

To hear the full episode including the deep dive, upgrade to paid.

Aaron Flores is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist and Certified Body Trust® Specialist who specializes in eating disorders and body image, with a particular focus on men. He hosts the podcast Men Unscripted and writes The Unscripted Journey on Substack. Aaron speaks regularly on weight stigma, masculinity, and building a healthier relationship with food and body.

Resources and References

Contains affiliate links to Amazon and Bookshop.org, where I earn a small commission for any purchases made.

Transcript

Disclaimer: The below transcription is primarily rendered by AI, so errors may have occurred. The original audio file is available above.

Christy Harrison: We first met 10 years ago, which is so wild to think about, back in 2016 when you were on my first podcast, Food Psych. And we’ll link to that episode in the show notes because there you tell your whole story with disordered eating and diet culture but to start us off today, I’d love to hear the brief version of your story with diet and wellness culture, and how you came to do the work you do now.

Aaron Flores: Yeah, it’s amazing that it’s 10 years ago. I really appreciate you inviting me back to talk about these things, and especially with this lens. The short story is that becoming a dietitian was my career change. It was actually sort of diet culture and the wellness industry that brought me into this career. I had struggled with food and body image pretty much almost my whole life. I saw my first dietitian when I was 15. She was a weight loss dietitian and taught me a lot of disordered eating and eating disorder behaviors to be frank with you and I didn’t do any of them until I was in my 20s.

And in that period of time, I dove headfirst into really restrictive eating, really rigid rules around exercise, and food. And I also hated my career at that point. I was a college dropout. I was working in the dot-com world. I was in the midst of all this, what I thought euphoria around food and body. And I was like, if I can do this, I think I could tell everyone else how to do this also. And that’s why I became a dietitian. And it was through a lot of unlearning and a lot of exposure to doing something very different.

Now I don’t practice from that same paradigm. Now I practice from a very weight-inclusive approach. I work primarily with folks who have eating disorders and disordered eating. I work with a lot of dudes around this topic. And I’ve been in it, like I’ve been blinded by it, I’ve bought into it, and then I decided to not buy it anymore. And I decided to opt in for something else. So I’ve been through a lot of this at different points in my life and come out sort of the other side.

Christy Harrison: What were some of the things that helped you get out of that diet-centric paradigm and into a more weight-inclusive one?

Aaron Flores: Yeah. So the first thing was Intuitive Eating, the book by Elyse Resch and Evelyn Tribole. And I think that’s also why you and I connected, is sort of an understanding and appreciation for that book. And to be honest, I picked up the book, I think, probably during my undergrad work when I went back to school, and I didn’t love it. I sort of put it down, and then I went back and read it when I had finished my internship and I was actually working as a dietitian. And what really got me sort of to dive deeper into it is I heard one of the co-authors, Elyse Resch, speak. She lives in LA, I’m in LA, and there was a professional dietitian organization meeting where they invited her to come and talk.

And I went and listened to her and something clicked, something about how she was talking about these things, not just what she was saying, but how. And I heard so much compassion and empathy in her talk around this very charged topic of food that it invited me in way deeper. I re-read the book, I really finished it, and then I emailed her and I said, listen, thank you for this book. It’s been incredibly meaningful already. I’ve come back to it and I’m a dietitian in LA, and I just wanted to thank you for your work. She responded and said, thank you so much and would you like to come to supervision? I hold group supervision on a monthly basis, and we’d love to have you join. And for me, I was like, well, absolutely yes. This sounds great.

Looking back on it now, that was sort of group therapy for me. I sat and listened to these other therapists and dietitians and other healthcare providers talk about intuitive eating with one of the co-authors going over case studies, going over what’s going on in the world. But I didn’t really have a clinical reason to be there, really. There were questions and it could be really helpful, but it was more like internalizing it. I listened to these things and slowly it helped me unravel my own relationship with food. Because what I quickly learned through talking to Elyse and going to the supervision is I need to change how I’m working. I can’t continue professionally the way I’m going being a weight loss dietitian. It’s not going to work from for me. And I know that if I’m going to make this radical change professionally, I need to do it personally.

And so those supervision sessions were really like my group therapy in starting this process for myself. And it did take years. I would say the other thing that was so helpful. Was having friends and colleagues who are in the field who let me fumble with my unlearning. They never pressured me that I had to get it right or perfect. They let me straddle two worlds, thinking I could be a weight loss dietitian, but I could also do intuitive eating. And they let me do that with a lot of grace, knowing, hey, that might not work long-term. But it gave me this really safe place to wrestle with these ideas that I was wrestling with and come into my own feelings around it and my own way of doing it. And I don’t think I would have had that progression without so many mentors and colleagues who helped me along.

Christy Harrison: I really relate to that. I feel that so much because I also had a moment of fence-straddling, a years-long period of fence-straddling. I’m sure many of us, any clinicians in the audience probably can relate to that if they’ve gone to a more intuitive eating, non-diet approach. And it is hard to get out of the paradigm we were trained in, and it takes a lot to sort of wrestle with all that internalized weight stigma, maybe internalized body shame, and internalized plaudits for people who’ve lost weight, or feeling good about “helping” clients lose weight in a way that it’s most often not sustainable.

And I also remember colleagues being so gracious and just helpful in thinking through some of these issues that I was grappling with, but not pushing in any direction or saying you have to be this one way, you have to get over the fence or we’re not going to hang out with you anymore, or whatever. And I think about that now in terms of how the field has moved online in a lot of cases, and how a lot of the discourse happens on social media, and how it’s so much more black and white, and people are not necessarily clinicians, but sometimes, but more often, just sort of members of the public, I think, too, really calling people out for being on the fence or not fully embracing an anti-diet or non-diet approach. And I feel like that’s not actually that helpful for people’s professional journey and professional development.

Aaron Flores: I would agree in so many ways, yes.

Christy Harrison: Yeah. I mean, that’s a whole other story. We won’t go there right now. But yeah, so getting back to your story and sort of why I wanted to talk to you today, because we’ve had a couple other conversations on Food Psych, and I knew I wanted to have you back on Rethinking Wellness at some point. And lately I’ve been thinking a lot about Andrew Huberman because he has a new book coming out that I think is going to really bring the biohacking, pro-optimization, bro-wellness type version of disordered eating even more into the mainstream.

And to me, that looks like taking tons of experimental supplements, tracking everything with wearables and technology, having elaborate rituals around eating and exercise and bathing and sleep and breathing and all the things, and talking about it all in really sciencey sounding language that’s full of all these buzzwords but light on actual solid scientific evidence. When you really dig into the science, it’s light on the good evidence and it’s heavy on animal studies and really small studies and other questionable type of evidence. You work, Aaron, with a lot of men with disordered eating and body image concerns, as you mentioned. So I was curious to talk with you about this topic because I think it affects men in a particular way.

So to kick off this, this conversation, I’m curious why you think men are drawn to Andrew Huberman and others like him, like the biohacking sort of tech bro wellness types. And why is this so appealing specifically to men?

Aaron Flores: Yeah, it’s definitely bro culture, and wellness is having its moment for sure. And I think it’s been building for a few years now, and it’s hitting a pretty big crescendo. I think first off, it’s language. And I think you used a lot of these keywords that people really tap into, and that’s biohacking, optimizing. I’m 54, right? I feel like I’m old enough to have seen diet culture evolve throughout my lifetime in a lot of different ways. And I feel like the language of diet culture has always skewed feminine.

And I think what is so appealing about things like what Dr. Huberman and others are doing is it is language that is skewing masculine. And it’s putting all of the same routines, all of the same judgmental ideas around food, all of the same ideas around this is the ideal body and the ideal way of eating that has been said for tens of years. It’s now saying it directly to men and I think that’s what’s so appealing. It doesn’t sound like Weight Watchers. It doesn’t sound like Jenny Craig. It doesn’t sound like Nutrisystem. Right? I remember Nutrisystem in the ‘90s getting football players to market their shakes or their meal plan, right? And I remember, maybe it was the ‘80s, Dan Marino being a spokesperson for Nutrisystem. And If I look back on that, I think about, okay, they’re definitely marketing to men, but still it wasn’t masculine.

And I think what these folks are doing and doing it well is saying, this is the masculine way to diet. And this is the acceptable way. This is the way bros do it and I think that is very appealing to people. And I think the thing that they’re doing well, and I think diet culture has always done well, is marketing based on fear. It’s like, hey, here’s what you should be scared of, and here’s our fix for you and biohacking and having the wearable watch, phone, heart rate monitor, ankle strap, chin strap, whatever it’s gonna be feels like I’m taking control of this. I am controlling my own fate. And I think that’s comforting to a lot of folks, and especially dudes.

Christy Harrison: Yeah, and it doesn’t have the aesthetic trappings that I think weight loss diets that were marketed to women really did for such a long time, right?

Aaron Flores: Exactly. Like, you’re going to be stronger, you’re going to lift more, you’re going to be able to do more, you’re going to run faster, you’re going to, whatever, like the standing jump thing, you’re going to jump onto a very tall block, which is somehow very important. Outside of the gym, I think the other thing that they’re doing is like, this is going to help you be a better man, you’re going to be more productive, you’re going to earn more, you’re going to be more attractive, you’re going to have more partners, you’re going to be able to earn more money, you’re going to have a better career. This is the end goal, right? It’s not necessarily being smaller. It’s like, no, you’re going to be stronger and more productive and richer and more attractive because you’re doing this.

Christy Harrison: Yeah, the productivity element of it is really interesting too, right? It feels like it dovetails with so much of American culture and capitalism in general that’s pushing productivity at all costs. And it’s an interesting moment with AI as well, sort of pushing out those same lines of optimizing productivity and trying to do more and more and more and pack more and more and more in. And I hear definitely in the language of Andrew Huberman and others like him, they’ll be talking about breathing or sleep or whatever as helping enhance focus.

In and of itself, that might be helpful to some people, right? But then it’s like, what is the end goal of that? The end goal of that is to be the most productive person you can possibly be, right? To be the most optimized person you can possibly be. I heard an episode recently of Andrew Huberman answering reader questions or listener questions. And one person who called in was a doctor who said what happens when all this push toward optimization actually makes people mentally unwell? The sort of question that I think so many people have about this and that I certainly have.

And his answer was really interesting because he said some of the right things. He’s like, well, you certainly can’t always be doing the exact right things. You need time off, you need to cut yourself a break if you’re sick or if you’re on vacation or whatever. There are these moments in life where you can’t always be doing the thing. It’s not really good for you to always be doing the thing. And I was like, okay, hey, maybe I misjudged this guy. And then he’s like, when I’m on vacation, I actually eat better than when I’m at home, and I actually exercise more because I like it, because that’s just how I like to eat. I don’t like to eat garbage. I like to eat good food, right? Like, this good and bad food rhetoric and starts talking about what he does, and he’s like, but other people might have other things they want to be doing, and that’s fine. Everybody’s different, and blah, blah, blah.

And it’s again and again bringing it back to himself and how he’s this sort of paragon of virtue, right? Without actually saying that, but being like, well, I just like being this way. I just like living like this, but other people can do what they want. It’s such an underhanded thing, right? It’s so undermining of people’s actual autonomy because he’s this person that people look up to, especially those who’ve been listening to his podcast for a long time, probably have this sort of parasocial relationship with him where they want to emulate him and do what he does. And it’s like, oh, so you’re saying I could do this, but I could live like you, and really want good food and not garbage food. And so of course that’s what I’m going to want to do, right?

Aaron Flores: Exactly. Yeah, I think when you have such an influence like that, you can say each person can do what they want, but you’re selling yourself as the ideal. And so you can say that, but the reality is people want to be you, and that’s what they’re going to follow. I think also because there aren’t a lot of other voices in this space, it doesn’t seem like there’s many alternatives. If you’re going to follow a wellness dude, it’s going to be one of these dudes, and there’s no one else saying, oh, but I’m over here, we could do it differently too. It seems like there’s one path, and again, it’s all or nothing. You’re either going to do that or you’re not going to do anything.

Christy Harrison: Yeah, that’s a great point. I want to also not ignore the women who are into this stuff, right? Because there are plenty of women who are into Andrew Huberman, into biohacking, and what I’ve been calling bro wellness culture, which is just like what you said is sort of the masculinized way of speaking about wellness that we’re seeing now. I think maybe some women find that appealing because it’s not pandering to them in the way that some of the previous diet culture maybe did. It’s not just men who care about this stuff, right? But it does have this kind of hyper-masculine feel to it. It’s similar to, I think, some aspects of gym culture, bodybuilding culture, these sort of hyper-bro-y spaces that have existed.

And now we’re seeing a lot of women also gravitate towards that in the push, especially for perimenopausal women or postmenopausal women to lift heavy, right? And we see a lot of even anti-diet people kind of getting into lifting heavy and showing that on social media and stuff. And I’m not here to knock that. I think that’s great for them. And I think there’s something very empowering a lot of people feel about lifting heavy things. I don’t really know if I have a question about this. It’s just like, why are we so attracted to something that is so hyper-masculine, as women as well? Why are women attracted to this?

Aaron Flores: Okay, not to make it oversimplified, but they’re sexy. I think that, even for dudes, these are handsome men. Diet culture is sexy. That’s part of the appeal of it. Like, oh, let’s follow what these dudes are doing. But too, I do think about Fitness World. And I think about how innocuous it seems to want to be fit, right? To want to be strong, to want to be able to run more or faster or do the marathon or whatever. I think on the surface, it’s a very positive thing. Like, yes, move your body. Yes, push yourself and find your limits and see the growth in what you can do. That’s great. And I think there’s a point to where it becomes problematic.

I think fitness culture flies under the radar of things that are disordered because if we think about wellness, right, and we think about, well, getting fit is really so good for your health that is too much really a bad thing? I don’t think many people explore the idea of too much fitness not being good for you. I think that that’s part of the appeal is fitness culture can, on the surface, be very positive for people and be lifechanging and empower people. And it can also be really disordered and foster a lot of disordered behaviors and thoughts.

I think it can be a huge source of perfectionism that can be problematic because some people are not going to be able to lift heavy. You’re not gonna maybe run a sub-six-minute mile. You might not be able to bike 50 miles, right? You might, but the idea that you just need to push past the pain to perform is great if you’re racing the Tour de France but I watched the Tour de France, and they’re like 120 of those dudes racing. That’s a very small percentage of people who need to push themselves that hard to succeed.

Most of us just need to get out on the bike and have some fun and look around and look at the environment as we’re biking past it. We don’t need to climb Alpe d’Huez in 45 minutes. It might be okay to just go to Alpe d’Huez and look at it and go up a mile and turn down and turn back. But we have this idea that like, I need to achieve to the greatest possible peak of my performance, and if not, I’m not doing it right. I talk to my clients a lot about doing C-level work and getting a C, in working with me. And it’s a very body trust mentality, the certification I got a while back. But I think this is an example of that. It’s like, listen, you don’t have to get an A in your fitness. You can get a C. It can be up and down. Right? It doesn’t have to be perfect.

And I think people hear that, especially pushing up against what the Hubermans might be saying, is they see that as a failure. And like, no, but I need to be perfect or I won’t achieve. And I just disagree with that. I think you will achieve. I just think you’re going to do it from a much more compassionate mindset and a realistic mindset and a sustainable mindset rather than all or nothing. And to be honest, I think that’s one of the hardest things for folks to wrap their head around when they work with me is like, how do I do C-level work?

Christy Harrison: Right, I felt this way in my own recovery. I wanted to apply the same zeal that I had for dieting and overexercise to the work of recovery. And that doesn’t necessarily work the way you think it would.

Aaron Flores: Exactly.

Christy Harrison: Well, so this goes into something that I wanted to explore now, which is the harms of this sort of Huberman-esque way of thinking about food and bodies and health. We’ve touched on it a little bit, but how do you think it affects people’s relationships with food to have so much emphasis on eating in a specific way? Because Huberman recommends intermittent fasting and avoiding “garbage food” and whatever. All these different biohackers have their different things, right? Ketogenic, or there’s a lot of fasting out there. There’s, of course, a lot of supplements. What does that do to people’s relationships with food, to have those messages in their ears all the time?

Aaron Flores: Well, it doesn’t help. No, but I think in seriousness, I think the thing I want to use in what you just said is the idea that food can be garbage. And language matters a lot. And it’s a good example of a mindset that says if you don’t eat perfectly, you’re essentially eating trash. And if we really sort of let that sink in, what that means is when someone doesn’t follow the plan, which is unrealistic and unsustainable. Automatically, I’m a failure. Automatically, I’m diving into a dumpster to eat.

When instead, it’s like I’m actually enjoying this food. This food that someone is calling garbage. I sort of hate that I like it, but I do like it. But now I feel shitty for liking it, and I shouldn’t like it because it’s garbage. But I do like it. And then there’s this internal cycle that goes on and on and on and on that I’m a bad person, that I’ve done this to myself. This is my fault. Dr. H told me what to do and I just am not doing it. So it’s all my fault. It’s all my fault. That’s a cascade that happens over time, but that’s where I see folks land. Is that they feel like it’s their fault that they’re not following the plan.

I also think that all of these folks are giving advice that is highly privileged. Not everyone can afford the supplements. Not everyone can afford to eat the way that these folks eat. It is sometimes the accessible thing to do is to have Taco Bell, and that might be what is available. Not everyone’s going to be able to have the macro shake or whatever blah blah blah thing it is, and I think so it comes from this very privileged mindset. It’s not accessible to everyone. But I think what happens is people, when they can’t do it, or it doesn’t happen for them, they blame themselves instead of blaming the plan.

Christy Harrison: Yeah. And the plan was unsustainable to begin with. The plan was not something you could do for long-term.

Aaron Flores: Exactly.

Christy Harrison: Intermittent fasting or keto or whatever, those are all restrictive diets. These are all disordered behaviors with food really is what they are. And so yeah, to not be able to do that long-term is actually your body’s way of protecting you, not any failure on your part.

Aaron Flores: Exactly. And if we go back to what we talked about earlier, is the example of like, well, even on vacation, I eat better. I mean, you can do whatever you want. But here’s what I do. And again, that’s the moment of saying I know that this might not be sustainable for everyone but I do it anyway. Because look at how awesome I am. And look at how strong I am. I just like it. And I think it’s obviously deeper than that. That’s an oversimplification, but I think that when we hold that ideal up there, and then we as the people on the ground can’t do it, it’s like, well, geez, I must be failing because even on vacation, this dude eats better than when he’s at home.

Christy Harrison: And think about what that means, right? What kind of vacation is he going on to eat “better?” He’s going somewhere with luxurious food. This guy is rich beyond belief, I’m sure, with all the podcast ad deals and stuff that he has with supplement companies and all the rest. And all these biohacking guys, the famous ones, the ones you’ve heard about, some of them are literally billionaires. What does it mean to go on a vacation where you’re able to “eat better” than you would in your day-to-day life? Do you have your personal chef with you? Is that part of why? Do you have someone cooking to your exact specifications at the beautiful luxury resort that you’re staying at?

Aaron Flores: When you got on the plane, did you have to go to Trader Joe’s before to get a sandwich, or is there going to be food already provided on your private jet?

Christy Harrison: Exactly, exactly. Are you eating the snack box in coach, or are you in first class or on your private jet where you get to decide exactly what you can have? Yeah, yeah. It conveniently leaves out all of that stuff, and it’s just like, well, here’s what I do, and you can do what you want, but be rich like me. So thinking about now body image, men’s body image, how does this sort of biohacking, tech bro dieting sort of approach affect men’s body image?

Aaron Flores: Well, I mean, I think it’s very similar to what it does for food, is it creates this ideal. And in order to be successful or the pursuit of this whole endeavor, is to look a certain way, to have the tight t-shirt, and for your muscles to be coming through the shirt. You got a very polished look along with it. But I think there’s a lot of expectation then for dudes around a muscular body, right? And around a body that needs to look a certain way. And I think it does focus on being bigger and stronger and again, if that’s not either your body type, or what is achievable for you, automatically you feel like a failure.

Christy Harrison: And men, I feel like the push towards bigger bodies and more muscular, “lean,” ripped bodies or whatever I think is sort of a convenient mask. It’s been called in eating disorder literature bigorexia, right? It’s similar to anorexia in that there’s a certain ideal that is, generally speaking, still thin. It’s not like people are going for sort of like a sumo wrestler kind of strength, you know? They’re going for a certain type of strength that is very muscular and big, but still “lean.” And I think it can be easy to overlook how disordered that is, or how actually that could line up with something like anorexia or other disordered behaviors when people think, well, I’m not trying to get smaller, I’m trying to get bigger, so what’s the problem?

Aaron Flores: Exactly. Why is this an issue? And again, I think we go back to this idea of, I’m just trying to improve my health. This is what is going to help my longevity. This is what’s going to help me live many years. And so why is it a problem if I do it more? And I think the biggest disservice we’re doing is avoiding that question, is saying like, well, maybe it is too much. When is too much? Not everyone, right? But maybe there is a spectrum of folks in here who this is harmful to. And can we at least ask the question? Or at least have a lookout for it. And I think that’s what’s missing in so many ways.

Christy Harrison: Yeah, well, it’s making me think of this distinction between wellness and well-being, right? That well-being is sort of a more holistic, truly holistic sense of not just body, but mind, mental health, social and emotional health, economic well-being, this sort of whole-person level of feeling good or feeling sort of resourced and connected and supported and in community with people.

I think this biohacking and sort of wellness bro culture really takes people out of that because it takes them away from often connecting with others and sort of being able to be in community, right? Being able to go out to a spontaneous meal or eat with your family or go on vacation without “eating better” or doing more exercise than you do at home or whatever, right? It sort of sets people apart from others rather than bringing them together.

Aaron Flores: I think it’s true what you’re saying. And I think part of the allure of this culture is, for many folks, it does give them a sense of belonging. Like, oh, I’m gonna just go to the gym with these folks, or I’m gonna eat the macros with these folks. I’m on the Discord server with these dudes now. My point is we need community. And for folks, I think part of what it also does is it fills the void of feeling isolated, but I think it’s making a more isolated world. I think it’s serving a need, but I think you’re right, it’s missing a greater community where we connect outside of just this one thing.

And I think about my own experience of saying, no, I’m not going to go watch football on Sundays at the sports bar because I don’t feel like I’m allowed to eat chicken wings, right? Which is something I really thought and did. And listen, I love chicken wings. I think they’re amazing. I love football. It was sad to not have both, to feel like I couldn’t have both. And, that’s the kind of isolation that I think it really fosters.

And what you’re bringing up, right, is like, I’m limiting my life because I need to follow these rules. And it’s so hard to see outside of that because I have these four other dudes who are doing the exact same thing and we’re in it together. We’re in this firestorm hellscape together. But at least I have four dudes. And I’m telling you, there’s more than four dudes. And there’s so many other ways to connect with people. It does isolate these folks, and I think it just fills a need of community for some also.

Christy Harrison: Right. Well, and it’s like this community that is sort of further isolating, right? You find this community, but then the community encourages you to cut off from everyone else in your real life, right? And to spend more time on the Discord, spend more time at the gym uploading your selfies and talking about your gains or whatever with your group. And then you’re not actually engaging in the real world with the real people around you or people who could be part of your community that you aren’t really giving a chance to because you’re not able to show up at the sports bar or wherever and engage in the real world. But it can feel like, well, we’re doing the right thing. As I’m saying this, I’m like, there are shades of cult-like behavior to this, right?

Aaron Flores: You could have that description and be like, oh, that sounds like a cult. And yeah, I think there’s parts of that that sound similar to a cult and why people are drawn into it.

Christy Harrison: Yeah, and it’s not fully a cult because you could leave, right? There’s some volition there and stuff, but it is hard. And I think there is a pull to stay with the guru and the group and the way of thinking that you’ve sort of been indoctrinated into. I think that, I mean, the internet has all kinds of cultish sort of spaces like this. There’s a whole podcast Amanda Montell does called Cultish about cult-like sort of spaces and communities and stuff like that. And I think this biohacking one certainly is one of them that people can get kind of cultish about.

Aaron Flores: Yeah, for sure.

Christy Harrison: So, okay, we’ve talked about the harms of this, and we could go on for many more hours about the harms of this type of approach to wellness. But I want to get into how to help anyone listening who recognizes that they’ve experienced some of these harms or who knows someone who has, whether it’s men listening who’ve been sort of sucked up in this or women who’ve been brought in either by their Huberman husbands or just by sort of the strength of the rhetoric and how it spoke to them, or people who are partnered with men who have fallen into these traps.

So first, for anyone who sees that they themselves have developed disordered eating or a disordered relationship with their body, as a result of this approach, what do you think are some ways they can walk it back?

Aaron Flores: Yeah, well, first off, when you notice, I think it’s a huge moment to have that curiosity to say, whoa, this feels a little bit out of control for me. And a lot of people don’t get that so I just want to say it’s great to have that curiosity and to have that show up. The second thing I would say is start to think about where all-or-nothing thinking is getting in the way of your life. Nothing in this world is all or nothing.

So I guess my theme, I’m going to have to sort of interject here, but my theme here is I want to offer you a ton of self-compassion. Okay, I want to offer you a ton of self-compassion because you were just doing the best you could with the tools you had. Okay? And starting to look at how all-or-nothing thinking has been harmful means sort of sitting in a lot of discomfort and a lot of nuance. And that is not easy.

Part of why all of these things are so enticing is because they play on fear. And listen, we don’t want to die. We want to live long. We want to be healthy. It’s scary to not be. And so part of walking it back means you might sit with some discomfort, and that’s okay. That’s a very human experience.

The other thing that I would invite you to do is to talk to someone about it. I think so many folks get to a point where it’s like, this doesn’t feel like it’s working. So again, all or nothing thing. I’ll just give up. I’ll just go the complete opposite direction. And I think there’s a middle ground. And talking to someone, whether it’s a professional or a friend or a family member or whatever, I think it gets us out of this experience that I’m alone in it. You are not alone in this. There are many, many people in the same boat you are in right now, and it’s okay to struggle. And being able to talk through it and get some support is extremely useful.

And I think it’s sort of this idea of you know what? I don’t have to do this alone. I’m not the problem here, maybe, right? Maybe it’s not my fault, but I need help to wrestle with that. And listen, there are a ton of practical things to do around food and movement, but I want to stick with very sort of broad ideas that will allow those in. The broad topics are self-compassion, having curiosity, and trying not to be judgmental around it.

Christy Harrison: I love that. I want to ask you what’s really a two-part question, which is, how can we support those Huberman husbands or partners or loved ones, right, the Huberman people in our lives for whom this approach has harmed their relationships with food and their body? And also, how can we talk to them when a conversation, any conversation about anything really, has become a total diet and wellness culture minefield that’s maybe triggering to us the loved one?

Link nội dung: https://melodious.edu.vn/ok-bro-a115719.html